tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post674116344835226634..comments2023-12-28T06:30:48.808-05:00Comments on The Rule of Reason: Islam the AlienUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-12971599233137291152011-07-14T03:17:54.575-04:002011-07-14T03:17:54.575-04:00Mr. Cline: I am no multiculturalist myself. This i...Mr. Cline: I am no multiculturalist myself. This instance of how Spaniards and non-Spaniards dealt with Indios and Indians is one of those “cross overs” where people with opposing views happen, by chance, to have not the same but merely similar viewpoints leading to identical outcomes. The Spaniards met the local Indios as conquerors (Conquistadores)and then proceeded in a way not at all different from how the non-Spaniards met the American Indians as colonizers. Conquerors and colonizers started from opposing viewpoints, but handled the given situation in the same way. Both came to take over territory and the possibilities new territories offer and both proceeded based on “territoriality”. Against Ayn Rand’s comment that Indians had no knowledge of “property rights,” they did know the basics of it: territoriality, the behavior pattern exhibited by an animal in defending its territory. So much for “displacement,” not homicide.<br />Moreover, I don’t agree with the “multicultural premise” that Europeans should have waited for the Indians to catch up with the European ideas of law, etc. What laws? The laws of Inquisition? What private property? Feudalism ruled at that time. Do I think that the Indians would have behaved differently with the Europeans if they had discovered Europe instead of the other way round? Not at all. All savages behave the same with other savages.Manfred F. Schiederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12771173092261187768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-42103451824163641602011-07-12T20:06:13.372-04:002011-07-12T20:06:13.372-04:00Damien,
I read that originally from a biography o...Damien,<br /><br />I read that originally from a biography of Robert Goddard in grade school. <br /><br />Here is a link that recaps some of that.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Goddard#V-2<br /><br />c. andrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-82168507221163121722011-07-12T20:02:17.926-04:002011-07-12T20:02:17.926-04:00Thanks Ed,
Your point about the malevolent intell...Thanks Ed,<br /><br />Your point about the malevolent intelligence being feral and unable to innovate beyond the range of the moment is well taken. For those who are having trouble grasping this and using incidental advances in totalitarian dictatorships as counter evidence, consider this; Those slaves are still human and the fact that they innovate independently is an example of the <b>failure</b> of the totalitarian state to control them. The vast majority of what came out of the Soviet Union was the result of theft, espionage and imitation. They dismantled entire factories in the satellite countries as well as Germany proper and shipped them back to Russia because it was easier to transport a factory than it was to build one with Russian intellectual and economic infrastructure as it was. <br /><br />I don't remember the Mig series, but there was one where they didn't maintain or repair the engines; there was too much variance between parts so when an engine went down they swapped it out whole. Once again, I don't remember the specific numbers but they were lucky to get 100 hours of operating time per engine. <br /><br />Ed's column was addressing the imagined alien mind where malevolence was as much an attribute or more so than reason was. He then segued into totalitarian philosophies who would, were they omnipotent, compel their adherents into the same condition. To the extent that they succeed (and have no better minds to plunder from) they are reduced to a hard-scrabble nomadic existence. The occasional individual who arises and innovates represents the <b>failure</b> of that system; it is not an instance of the totalitarian system's "success."<br /><br />c. andrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-67557070263352557582011-07-12T19:50:07.597-04:002011-07-12T19:50:07.597-04:00Anonymous,
Well, thanks for the important informa...Anonymous,<br /><br />Well, thanks for the important information, but do you have a source? What you are claiming to be true, is not common knowledge.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-90559520179097465242011-07-12T19:39:07.831-04:002011-07-12T19:39:07.831-04:00After a thorough inspection Goddard was convinced ...After a thorough inspection Goddard was convinced that the Germans had "stolen" his work. Though the design details were not the same, the basic design of the V-2 was similar to one of Goddard's rockets. The V-2, however, was technically far more advanced than the most successful of the rockets designed and tested by Goddard. The Peenemünde rocket group led by Wernher von Braun may have benefited from the pre-1939 contacts to a limited extent, but had also started from the work of their own space pioneer, Hermann Oberth; they also had the benefit of intensive state funding as a war project, large-scale production facilities (using slave labor), and repeated flight testing that allowed them to refine their designs. Nonetheless, in 1963, von Braun, reflecting on the history of rocketry, said of Goddard: "His rockets...may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles."<br /><br />c. andrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-67752022173728170312011-07-11T08:08:40.092-04:002011-07-11T08:08:40.092-04:00Manfred: Re your contention that advanced civiliz...Manfred: Re your contention that advanced civilizations “kill off” or “annihilate” less advanced ones. This is a multicultural fallacy. One can score the Spaniards for going on a looting expedition in South and Central America, but overall the European settlement of the Americas was a matter of displacement, not homicide. That multicultural premise would lead one to the illogical conclusion that Europeans should have just waited offshore for the Indians, Aztecs, et al., or the “aboriginals” to catch up with European ideas of law, private property, technology, etc. , which, of course, would never have happened, as the Indians, Aztecs, et al. were comfortable in their stagnation and resisted new ideas at every turn. The chief fault of U.S. Indian policy is that it recognized tribes as “nations,” and devised the reservation policy. I suggest that you read Book Three of my Sparrowhawk series, and see what advice Hugh Kenrick, the hero, gives to Crown lieutenant-governor Fauquier regarding the Indian problem. He expresses the proper policy the Crown (and later the U.S.) ought to have adopted to deal with a people who had no sense of individualism, property, or law.Edward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-6751726376992723832011-07-11T03:48:26.955-04:002011-07-11T03:48:26.955-04:00Mr. Cline's article impressed me as an Objecti...Mr. Cline's article impressed me as an Objectivist speaking of an Objectivist world, where only well-meaning beings invent and produce well-meaning products. As an Objectivist myself, I hedge the same positive sentiments.<br />Unfortunately, we don't live in an Objectivist world, though, hopefully, mankind will sometime. In the meantime, we live in a killing area, with killing people killing other killing people.<br />Arthur C. Clarke, the great SF writer, put it quite correctly in one of his scientific essays, reminding us that, apart from savages killing other savages, more advanced civilizations have ALWAYS killed more backward ones, like the Spaniards killing the Indios, Aztecs, Mayas, etc. and the English speaking and further European immigrants annihilating the American Indians.<br />How will the interstellar foreigners behave? Will they behave civilly (I shun the word "civilized" in view of the foregoing examples)?Manfred F. Schiederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12771173092261187768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-54404929720540808342011-07-10T03:30:07.962-04:002011-07-10T03:30:07.962-04:00Another point: Perverse as it sounds, fundamentali...Another point: Perverse as it sounds, fundamentalist Islam--and there is no other kind--makes Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union look like modern, life-affirming, science-worshipping utopias. (That may be overstating the case a bit, but you get the drift.) About alien cultures, I cannot speak. I'll leave that to the nerds and tattoo artists who admire the current sci-fi hallucinations. Mr. Cline's piece had a theme, and it was well-served.Slade Calhounnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-24412467226406473302011-07-10T01:38:41.325-04:002011-07-10T01:38:41.325-04:00Damien
The Soviet Union was riding on the momentu...Damien<br /><br />The Soviet Union was riding on the momentum of a better time. When all the old guard started dying their prowess went with it and much of what they had was also stolen, too, initially from Germany (itself riding on a similar momentum) and later from the West generally speaking.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-3564573895257254532011-07-08T15:02:02.807-04:002011-07-08T15:02:02.807-04:00Thanks, Ed, for a very thought provoking article, ...Thanks, Ed, for a very thought provoking article, as usual. It is obvious that forced advancement of technology cannot last. The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany could not survive under this cloud of malevolence. I agree completely that no highly advanced civilization could master the technology of space travel and not develop some concept of benevolence and individual rights.<br />My earliest recollections of questioning the concept of god was when I heard and observed the requirement for "worship". A high intelligence who knew all and was all powerful but required worship and was jealous? Where was the benevolence with that "advanced" entity? I immediately thought that if this bastard existed, he should be overthrown, but naturally this leads to the knowledge that no such flawed entity could exist. In short, to me, technology and intelligence would have to lead to benevolence in the real world. Any forced advancement forwarded by duped slaves would be short lived and has been. <br /><br />T CarterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-27090099690957343332011-07-08T14:40:26.436-04:002011-07-08T14:40:26.436-04:00Damien,
Edward said it all, in his piece and now ...Damien,<br /><br />Edward said it all, in his piece and now in his responses to you. I suggest you reread the piece and think it through.Bosch Fawstinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395161566381602666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-18216146168038338182011-07-08T13:38:32.424-04:002011-07-08T13:38:32.424-04:00Edward Cline,
I never said the dictators themselv...Edward Cline,<br /><br />I never said the dictators themselves created anything. If that's what were getting at than yeah. I don't know of any dictator who invented a new piece of technology. If that's all that you were trying to get at than I misunderstood you. <br /><br />However, it didn't sound that way to me.<br /><br />regardless, I still think your thinking is flawed here. It doesn't really matter if the dictators themselves invented anything. Even most politicions in democratic society do not invent any new technology. <br /><br />Let's go back to what you said about extraterrestrials.<br />Even if what you say is true about the dictators themselves inventing nothing, there is still a good reason to think that a technologically advanced alien civilization, might not be friendly. It could still be a dictatorship and it could still be hostile, because even if their leaders didn't create the technology, to cross the stars and conquer humanity, others working for them, could have. What makes you so certain that other members of their species wouldn't be willing to invent those things for their masters?<br /><br />Things like the Soviet Space program actually prove my point there. In addition, Nazi Germany was a dictatorship as well, as the Soviet Union. <br /><br />I'm also a science fiction fan, and I do enjoy those alien invasion stories, probably more than you do, but I hope you're right about real extraterrestrials with advanced technology being peaceful. Unfortunately, I think we have good reason to be afraid. The Predator and the genocidal creatures in Indepence are actually far more plausible than either of us would like them to be.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-20694812197968058732011-07-08T12:51:37.404-04:002011-07-08T12:51:37.404-04:00Damien: This is my absolute last response: The Sov...Damien: This is my absolute last response: The Soviet space program you cite here was based on the work on German (Nazi) rocket scientists the Soviets took to Russia, which in turn was based on the development of ICBM's. And the work of the German rocket scientists who weren't captured by the Soviets worked for the Nazis to develop long range weaponry, i.e., the V1 and V2 rockets. As for aircraft, these same scientists developed the first stealth bomber and a superior fighter plane, actually a jet -- all products of minds that were willing to please their masters, who produced nothing, created nothing.Edward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-47818104871908799292011-07-08T12:42:05.672-04:002011-07-08T12:42:05.672-04:00Edward Cline,
"A dictatorship that prohibit...Edward Cline, <br /><br />"A dictatorship that prohibits independent thought can claim nothing new, except perhaps disastrous policies, such as the bogus Lysenko theory that led to unprecedented crop failures. Any facility for mechanical reasoning, moreover, is mentally compartmentalized, and subsidiary to the ends of a malevolent intelligence. That is my main point."<br /><br />Dictatorships maybe intolerant of beliefs that contradicts the official ideology, but that doesn't mean that they eliminate all independent thought what soever. Extreme dictatorships that stifle independent thought do tend to progress slowly, becouse all technological advancement comes from thinking outside the box, but that doesn't mean that people living under them, never invent anything at all. <br /><br />You still haven't responded to my sputnik example, which clearly was an object that was invented by people working in Soviet Union for the Soviet Union. Not to mention all the technological progress that took place at times when there no liberal societies, prior to the enlightment.<br /><br />Also it was the soviet Union who first put a man into space, not the United States or Europe that first put a man into space. It was clearly the Soviet Union, not the United States that started the space race.<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/sts1/gagarin_anniversary.html" rel="nofollow">Yuri Gagarin: First Man in Space</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Gagarin/SEMH5H3UFLG_0.html" rel="nofollow">The flight of Vostok 1</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0eHc9nQoY" rel="nofollow">Vostok 1 - first spacecraft in history</a> <br /><br /><a href="http://www.russianspaceweb.com/vostok1.html" rel="nofollow">Vostok: Dawn of Human Space Flight</a><br /><br />Again, who did they steal the technology to do this from? It simply did not exist before someone in the Soviet Union invented it.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-11925917413185060322011-07-08T12:07:36.116-04:002011-07-08T12:07:36.116-04:00Bosch,
You Wrote,
"I see multiple problems ...Bosch,<br /><br />You Wrote,<br /><br />"I see multiple problems with your response, and if you had thought things through, you may have been able to catch them and reconsider posting."<br /><br />Okay, fine, what were they?Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-17487360306817236112011-07-08T08:23:47.422-04:002011-07-08T08:23:47.422-04:00D. Bandler: I differ with the “official” Objectiv...D. Bandler: I differ with the “official” Objectivist position on Muslim and Mexican immigration, which I do not believe is realistic or takes into account some important factors. The question of free immigration is exacerbated by the existence of a welfare state and by other statist policies. The “official” Objectivist position argues from the premise that this is still a free country, when it is barely a semi-free one. While many Mexicans flee their stagnant and statist country for ours in pursuit of better lives based on their own efforts, too many others come here and immediately join the various welfare rolls, from federal education subsidies to the food-stamp program and medical care and so on. Mexico is not a friend of the U.S., as Canada can be said to be. <br /><br />Notice that there are no border patrols or fences on the Mexican side to keep Mexicans in Mexico; that is because it has been Mexican government policy to let potential trouble-making Mexicans go, and also so they’re not ballast on the Mexican welfare state. If the U.S. abolished the welfare state – or at least made the system much less “game-able” by “undocumented” aliens – we would see many more Mexicans who sought freedom and far fewer of the parasitical ones. But I have never heard any “official” Objectivist make these observations and reach these conclusions.<br /><br />Furthermore, official U.S. immigration policies have over the decades become blatantly racist, favoring immigrants from “third world” countries and discriminating against immigrants from developed nations. The late Ted Kennedy, for example, is responsible for much of the legislation that governs and defines INS policies. If you are a white Caucasian European with demonstrable skills and a proven education, your chances of being allowed to settle in the U.S. and attain citizenship are far less than if you are a Muslim with no skills and no education. With luck, the European or Russian or Asian will get a work visa or some kind of qualified residency. Then he must “game” the system with the hope of attaining citizenship. I’ve lost count of the number of Britons, Frenchmen, Scandinavians, Russians I happen to know who waited years to legally attain citizenship, but who report that every time they turn around they encounter Muslims or Mexicans or other “third worlders” who got their citizenship in under a year, who can barely speak English yet drive cars and collect welfare checks. <br /> <br />The government is reluctantly admitting, moreover, that Muslims are coming into this country via Mexico, and that they are likely jihadists. But the whole issue of immigration sits in a gray area because the U.S. is a welfare state that attracts flies, and also because we are in a state of undeclared war with Islamic states. I’ve written on the peril of not acknowledging Islam as a hostile ideology in the past, so I won’t dwell on it here.Edward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-48912930516144111032011-07-08T07:32:50.996-04:002011-07-08T07:32:50.996-04:00Sultan Knish (who usually agrees with my articles)...Sultan Knish (who usually agrees with my articles) expressed reservations about my assertions about the impotence of malevolent intelligences. He cited their mastering the science of mechanics. I answered: <br /><br />My point is that the science of mechanics (or of nuclear fuels, etc.), must have been created first, before a malevolent intelligence could appropriate it for its own ends. But a banana slug or a shark or a grizzly bear isn't going to discover the principles of mechanics or any other scientific or technological advance. <br /><br />The Nazis, for example, did not invent Zikon gas with which to kill Jews in the fake showers; the chemical was invented by a private firm which sold it to the Nazis. I recommended to one critic of my piece on Rule of Reason that he acquire Anthony C. Sutton's "Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development," which is a 3 or 4 volume study of how the Soviets stole, bought, or emulated especially Western military technology and were responsible for not one innovation or invention. The knock-offs of the American space shuttle and the British-French Concorde are notable examples. <br /><br />A dictatorship that prohibits independent thought can claim nothing new, except perhaps disastrous policies, such as the bogus Lysenko theory that led to unprecedented crop failures. Any facility for mechanical reasoning, moreover, is mentally compartmentalized, and subsidiary to the ends of a malevolent intelligence. That is my main point.Edward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-11422298890653419622011-07-08T07:27:29.106-04:002011-07-08T07:27:29.106-04:00D. Bandler...In answer to your question about Obje...D. Bandler...In answer to your question about Objectivists and open immigration....who said they were Objectivists? Objectivism is based on looking at reality and acting accordingly...not ignoring or evading reality. Those who cannot grasp proper context and fail to see the forest for the trees are not Objectivists.<br /><br />T. CarterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-48149000756238526562011-07-08T03:07:46.546-04:002011-07-08T03:07:46.546-04:00"There are no problems with the essay. Rememb..."There are no problems with the essay. Remember that the governments of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union (and also of Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy), did not "originate" or create anything, but rather they used and exploited technology that was already in existence, or that was developed for them by their myriad Dr. Stadlers. So, all your examples are extraneous."<br /><br />What Ed said.<br /><br />Miss Rand commented, in her 1958 Foreword to "We the Living": "But how can we explain the 'Sputnik'? Read the story of 'Project X' in "Atlas Shrugged."'<br /><br />Those who see problems with the essay, are seeing them because of their own failure to think in fundamentals. They also ignore many more facts than they name. E.g. why did Soviet agents (as described in the book "East Minus West Equals Zero" approach American technology companies and ask to buy "two of EVERYTHING"? Why weren't Americans trying to copy Soviet technology? Why were Soviet fighter jets using vacuum tubes, years after American jets were using transistors?<br /><br />Bill B.Bill Buckonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-15851576519927098032011-07-08T03:06:27.257-04:002011-07-08T03:06:27.257-04:00Edward,
I see no problems, and many excellent po...Edward, <br /><br />I see no problems, and many excellent points made in your piece. Great connections all around. Thank you.<br /><br /><br />Damien, <br /><br />I see multiple problems with your response, and if you had thought things through, you may have been able to catch them and reconsider posting.Bosch Fawstinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395161566381602666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-50128234073957039672011-07-07T23:03:24.058-04:002011-07-07T23:03:24.058-04:00Elisheva: Thank you for getting my point so quickl...Elisheva: Thank you for getting my point so quickly.<br /><br />EdEdward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-1201143413424525422011-07-07T23:02:48.582-04:002011-07-07T23:02:48.582-04:00Ed,
Another great essay. But again you are sugges...Ed,<br /><br />Another great essay. But again you are suggesting a prohibition on Muslim immigration. You must know that most Objectivists are insane open borders advocates. I favor non-protectionist immigration and reject all the bullshit protectionist arguments against a free market of labor, but nevertheless realize open immigration is suicidal and letting Muslims in the country is suicidal stupidity at its greatest heights. As much as I love Objectivism, if another fucking Objectivist tells me that prohibiting Muslim immigration is a "violation of individual rights" I think I will spit. <br /><br />But, let me ask you, how would you argue for prohibition of Muslim immigration in a way that is consistent with political individualism and the non-initiation of physical force principle. Many Conservatives argue it can't be done and that Objectivism is fatally flawed because of it. I think they are wrong, but it is not an easy argument to make at the level of political theory.<br /><br />Any ideas?<br /><br />D. BandlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-66014664985171464462011-07-07T21:22:12.811-04:002011-07-07T21:22:12.811-04:00Elisheva Hannah Levin,
I agree, we definitely hav...Elisheva Hannah Levin,<br /><br />I agree, we definitely have a lot to loose, and that's why I don't want our freedom taken away, and our way of life to be destroyed by religious fanatics.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-29523972883950743082011-07-07T21:05:29.344-04:002011-07-07T21:05:29.344-04:00I am thinking of the Mongolian invasions. They sub...I am thinking of the Mongolian invasions. They subdued northern China, Russia, most of Central Asia on the first round, and would likely have made inroads into Europe if Ghengis Khan had not died. His sons and grandsons conquered Constantinople, Persia and other parts of the former Caliphate, as well as southern China and Vietnam. Their empire lasted about 200 years. They were parasites on the civilizations of others--where ever they went, they destroyed the cities and killed most of the people quite brutally, sparring only the craftsmen, artists, and scribes, taking them back to Mongolia as slaves. They fair ruined Russia, and there are many places that were going civilizations at the time that completely ceased to exist. So although malevolent intelligences may not be creative, they can be destructive over long periods of time. This is why it is imperative to oppose Islam's war on the West. We have much to lose.Elisheva Hannah Levinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16061377724926154037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-21902646092380106812011-07-07T15:32:26.141-04:002011-07-07T15:32:26.141-04:00Edward Cline,
If there was anyone who devoloped n...Edward Cline,<br /><br />If there was anyone who devoloped new technology or improved upon old technology, while living in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, and that person supported either one of those totalitarian ideologies volentarily, one of your main points is refuted. The people running the goverments themselves may not have created anything, but people working for them volentarily clearly did, and at least some of them lived in those societies, and in some cases where genuine supporters of those slave states. <br /><br />Why for example was the Soviet Union able to launch something into space prior to any other society, if what you're saying is true? How did such a "malevolent intelligence" as you put it manage to do that, if they do not and cannot create anything? Clearly someone living in the Soviet Union designed that thing, and nothing like it had existed before.<br /><br />I also found an webpage on some important technological advancements that took place under the Nazi regime in Germany, and it does not look like some Nazi propaganda site.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.theotherside.co.uk/tm-heritage/background/v1v2.htm#research" rel="nofollow">World War 2:<br />German "vengeance weapons"</a><br /><br />I've also seen entire documentaries on military technology developed by the Axis powers. Granted the leadership of those societies did not devolope anything themselves, but at least some people working for them, living in their societies did, and mostly likely those scientists suported the regime, or were indiffernt and were creating the new weapons becouse they were being paid to do so.<br /><br />Also how do you explain, even what little technological advancement there was during the Middle Ages in Europe? It may have been at a snails' pace, especially compared to today, but it still happened. There were no liberal democracies, republics or capitalist societies back than, even out side of Europe. Every society was either a tribal society or a monarchy during that time period. <br /><br />Thanks for the book recommendation by the way. I think I'll look up Anthony Sutton's.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.com