tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post305279617409539438..comments2023-12-28T06:30:48.808-05:00Comments on The Rule of Reason: Pax Germania vs. Pax IslamiaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-67664404004115630722015-10-27T23:59:43.450-04:002015-10-27T23:59:43.450-04:00The Svandberg interview was interesting. At least ...The Svandberg interview was interesting. At least I learned something unlike the Onkar interview where all I learned is that organized Objectivism is a delusional utopian movement. But the podcast on Sweden was informative, although I've learned similar material from Mollyneaux and from some of the alt-right blogs. TRS (therightstuff.com a white identarian site) linked to a really excellent podcast on Scandinavia. They had guys from Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland and they broke down exactly what the Left is doing in each country. They outlined all the major political parties and what they stand for. The sad thing is that there really is no political party in Scandinavia that is libertarian oriented. They're all socialists, even their right wingers. <br /><br />But the economic discussion on the Brook podcast was useful. Brook's better point is that Scandinavia (and all of Europe) has a baseline semi-socialist system that they hover around; sometimes to the Left, sometimes to the right. But no true pro-liberty advocacy is possible. But what they didn't get into (but what the alt-right guys did get into) was the racial issue and the country's demographics and how that might change things (they even got into Anders Breivik and the Left's surprising non-response to him). Also, funny thing about Sweden. Apparently some in the government are sort of trolling the Arabs and Somalis. They are locating them outside of the big cities in really cold places. Many of these blacks and Arabs who were expecting to get the freebies in Stockholm (where all the white womyn at!) are now going to freeze their ass off in the middle of nowhere. The same thing is going to happen in Germany. Good, let them freeze. Why would equatorial people want to live in the north anyway (yeah I know the answer).<br /><br />The failure of the Objectivist movement to recognize Arab and all Muslim immigration into Europe as an invasion that could eventually destroy European civilization is one of the more deplorable elements of Organized O'ism. That's the problem with describing civilization as "Western Civilization". Its better described as European civilization. If you frame it that way you understand how indispensable Europeans are to the civilization they have built. But once again the problem of runaway universalism rears its ugly head. You know I wonder if in the end Objectivism isn't yet another case of secularized Christianity. (Moldbug's thesis) "We are all one", "brotherhood of man", "we are all god's children" (although without god), etc. Listening to Onkar, that eschatological vibe Steve mentioned, I get the sense that I was listening to a sermon. And this from atheist philosophers no less. Interesting.madmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375140131881725965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-45332178535548505462015-10-27T21:08:29.075-04:002015-10-27T21:08:29.075-04:00Ed: They are dancing around the issue of our once ...Ed: They are dancing around the issue of our once European culture. Funny, on the most recent Brook show he had an ARI guy (Svandberg) from Sweden who pointed out that there is "white flight" out of Sweden. Wonder why.<br /><br />Brook said this:<br />_____<br /><br />Politics in ILL is worst than CA and few immigrants. In Texas, lots of immigrants and some, not much, better politics. CA is left because that is what the people who count in the culture are -- intellectuals, journalists, entrepreneurs...<br />_____<br /><br />Well, ILL (I assume he means Illinois) has massive immigration (particularly Hispanics in Cook County) which has turned it into a largely Democratic state (Dem super majorities in both houses, last I read). Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a big push for higher taxes and restricting guns in Texas like you see in Illinois.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17224280484542390176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-10304925858990853402015-10-27T20:34:02.184-04:002015-10-27T20:34:02.184-04:00Steve Jackson: Maybe Brook is a Star Wars fan, an...Steve Jackson: Maybe Brook is a Star Wars fan, and believes in the power of the "Force." Wishing will make it so. Just want hard enough that that torpedo to go down the vent hole and blow up the Death Star, and it will happen. I haven't kept track of the debate on Facebook, but did the race issue come up, vis-a-vis the Teddy Kennedy inspired racial quota established that favors "people of color" and not Europeans wanting to emigrate to the U.S. to escape their cannibal welfare systems? Edward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-85773673267578470272015-10-27T20:09:44.121-04:002015-10-27T20:09:44.121-04:00Really, I don't get Brook. He admits that His...Really, I don't get Brook. He admits that Hispanics vote left. He doesn't deny that they do so because they are leftist. But for some reason, it's all the Republicans fault.<br /><br />Texas doesn't have an income tax and has laws (I imagine) that are supportive of the 2d Amendment. Does Brook seriously deny that Texas will wind up with an income tax when Hispanics become a political majority?<br /><br />This is the larger part of the open immigration problem. Mexicans, Somalians or whatever 3d worlders make their country hell holes. But when the come to the US, the border has some transformative property?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17224280484542390176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-52620844717619390702015-10-27T19:38:52.436-04:002015-10-27T19:38:52.436-04:00Ghate also implied that there would be some eschat...Ghate also implied that there would be some eschatological judgment bt the diversity gods if we don't allow massive immigration. If you have a government that restricts immigration or has ideological screening, you will end up with a government that persecutes its citizens prevents them from leaving, etc. The Naturalization Act of 1790 (or whatever it's called) established the USA as a free, European, Republic. We wound up with the freest and most prosperous nation that ever existed.<br /><br />I read the FB posts you referenced. Yaron will never talk about how much third world or Hispanic immigration we should allow nor why he doesn't want to impose open immigration on Europe.<br /><br />On one of the posts Yaron implied that the ARI's official position is open immigration. That should be reason enough to stop supporting it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17224280484542390176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-51801122550730483262015-10-27T14:23:42.722-04:002015-10-27T14:23:42.722-04:00Just saw this:
https://www.facebook.com/ybrook/po...Just saw this:<br /><br />https://www.facebook.com/ybrook/posts/970109593028316<br /><br />Reading his comments is difficult. He could never be convinced of any position that considers the importance of maintaining European populations as a value. And he knows that Hispanics vote Left but he doesn't care. He still thinks they have a right to come here. He even uses the Jews as an intimidation tactic. <br /><br />He's unlikeable. madmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375140131881725965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-51766701984408435282015-10-27T13:09:36.526-04:002015-10-27T13:09:36.526-04:00Steve,
I was shocked too. How could they have not...Steve,<br /><br />I was shocked too. How could they have not seen or listened to Stephan Mollyneaux's videos by now? That type of information is readily available. Do they live in that small a bubble? That imo is not honest error. But what did you think of Onkar Ghate's view of America at the end of that interview? He said that a poor Guatemalan with a dream has one and only one life and if you deny him entry into America "how can he not hate you?" (you evil white bastard, although he left that implied part out). And thus, America is the place where everyone should come to fulfill their dreams, even Ethiopians, a people Onkar mentioned numerous times indicating that Onkar has no awareness of black IQ rates or any of the pathologies of black populations. He is totally clueless about anything outside philosophy and seems on board with the Left's goal of changing the racial demographics of America by importing as many non-whites as possible. <br /><br />It seems to me that they (and pretty much all O'ists) approach Objectivism as a religion, with America having a Messianic duty to be "a light unto nations" and "a beacon of hope to all people of the world". This strikes me as more religion than philosophy. It actually strikes me as altruistic. Ed Powell in the discussion at Amy Peikoff's blog said that Objectivism has no developed political science. That has become real to me. I just reread Rand's essays on politics and while I think she has some sound meta-principles there I realized how incomplete her writings were if your goal was a fully articulated political theory. The "Objectivist politics" is at this point nothing more than scaffolding. <br /><br />It seems that they treat "the non-initiation of physical force" as a mystic primary (even though they say it is not an axiom). But while the NIOF is important, it too is just scaffolding that needs to be filled out. No one has done that. The typical O'ist will say that if I own a business and I am an American then I should be able to contract with Ethiopians or Guatemalans or anyone so long as they don't have infectious diseases or are criminals or are "enemy combatants". And that's the extent of the limitations. To me that is woefully inadequate not to mention suicidal. It is a view that can be described as "atomistic individualism". An individual is not an island, he lives as part of a group, in this case a nation. What one person does can have negative consequences for the entire nation. The NIOF is one consideration but it has parameters which I have seen no one attempt to flush out. In that way, the Objectivist politics is incomplete at best (and might even be flawed at worst, at least as stated).<br /><br />I don't want to trash Objectivism because I still respect its better elements and its the reason I am not a Leftist which I will always be thankful for. But I see that the Objectivist movement is fully in thrall to philosophic rationalism. IMO because they refuse to consider human nature and specifically race and heredity as well as female sexual psychology; ie all the things the alt-right are considering. But sadly the alt-right has some really crappy philosophic ideas. Even a brilliant polemicist like Larry Auster was at root a Christian Platonist who denied evolution. The best philosophic foundation I can find in the alt-right is Libertarian Realist (a former Randian). Mollyneaux is good as well despite the anarchism. I would love to see Yaron or Onkar debate Stephan on these issues. But you know they won't because he would make them look bad. He's light years beyond them in terms of empirical knowledge and the bio-realist framework needed to deal with the deeper issues of politics. madmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375140131881725965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-2786753183552343132015-10-26T19:41:48.256-04:002015-10-26T19:41:48.256-04:00Max,
I listened to the show and couldn't beli...Max,<br /><br />I listened to the show and couldn't believe it. Ghate and Brook get the facts wrong and misrepresent the transmigration restrictionist arguments.<br /><br />For example, the claim by restrictionists is that Hispanic immigrants vote leftist because they have been voting that way even before immigration became an issue, that they poll left on issue after issue, they voted for Democrats in higher numbers after Reagan signed an amnesty in 87, etc. Since I (and I assume others) have pointed this out to Brook many times, his claim that Hispanics don't vote Republican because of Republican "xenophobia" is disingenuous to say the least.<br /><br />Brook actually said that if the USA were free, we wouldn't have to be concerned if 10 immigrants arrived for every American. That's 3 billion mostly 3d worlders. He said that we could "convert" (!) these people and if you don't believe that, you lack self esteem. Life is short and I don't have time to convert 10 non-English speakers to the value of Capitalism. My Spanish is rusty and I can't speak Bengahli, Amharic or who knows what.<br /><br />If I can't convert my white friends that you should have the right not to bake a cake for a wedding you don't approve of, I seriously doubt that I can convert Ethiopians to belief that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was wrong and that Shelley v. Cramer was judicial activism. <br /><br />But none of this matters to Brook, although he things the consequences of open immigration for Israel would be disastrous. For the rest of us it's "to the gas chambers go."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17224280484542390176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-32344657008982946852015-10-25T13:10:22.549-04:002015-10-25T13:10:22.549-04:00The same thing applies in America. Stephan Mollyne...The same thing applies in America. Stephan Mollyneaux just posted some awesome data rich videos of immigration both in America and in Europe. His recent immigration and welfare video was absolutely depressing. Immigrants are leeches as a group and all immigrant groups are anti-liberty, even Asians. I strongly recommend Stephan's videos. Even though is a free market anarchist, he offers tremendous intellectual value in his podcasts. Far more than organized Objectivism. <br /><br />Yaron Brook and Onkar Ghate recently discussed immigration. Besides the low hanging fruit of economics they misrepresented everything else and their information was wrong. They ignore the accumulated data. Not to mention that at the end of that podcast they have what can only be described as a religious Messianic view of America as owing every immigrant with a dream right of entry. I can see why so many Conservatives view Objectivists and libertarians as delusional utopians. I don't think being pro-liberty needs to be that way but you can see why that view persists when you listen to two open border advocates ignore pretty much all of accumulated human experience in favor of what more closely resembles a religion than of a logic driven public policy.madmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375140131881725965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-38074555908629477542015-10-25T09:53:27.904-04:002015-10-25T09:53:27.904-04:00Steve Jackson: No, they're not going to Europe...Steve Jackson: No, they're not going to Europe to rescue the welfare states. Greenfield explains that fact quite well in his "The Death of Europe" column. And, as I remarked in my column. the European leaders who think Muslims want to shore up their welfare states are quite delusional.Edward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.com