tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post7041343619475997586..comments2023-12-28T06:30:48.808-05:00Comments on The Rule of Reason: Public Bible SchoolsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-89428038319172027122007-09-01T19:58:00.000-04:002007-09-01T19:58:00.000-04:00Turns out that there's another way of getting reli...Turns out that there's another way of getting religion into the schools: fake history!<BR/><BR/>"Religious preaching makes these books unfit for use in public schools" by William J. Bennetta (of TTL)<BR/>http://www.textbookleague.org/sp-nogo.htm<BR/><BR/><B><I>"When we examine the textbooks that major publishers try to sell to public schools, we sometimes find fraudulent passages that function as instruments of religious indoctrination: Religious myths are depicted as accounts of real people and events, religious superstitions are depicted as matters of fact, and the origins of religious writings are obscured or are wrapped in outright lies."</B></I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-43303341331617536272007-08-29T01:13:00.000-04:002007-08-29T01:13:00.000-04:00I'm just trying to be a good Samaritan, that's all...I'm just trying to be a good Samaritan, that's all. Am I a voice crying in the wilderness? Or worse yet, a Jonah?<BR/><BR/>It doesn't take the wisdom of a Solomon to see that trying to get things done with a bunch of ill-educated people would be no better than the tower of Babel.<BR/><BR/>Do we really want students to think that "my cup runneth over" was something said by a Playboy model?<BR/><BR/>Bill Bucko<BR/><BR/>P.S. A Catholic girl I once knew, told me I was a cross she had to bear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-27710687027605011852007-08-28T02:12:00.000-04:002007-08-28T02:12:00.000-04:00Hardened atheist though I am, I have to disagree. ...Hardened atheist though I am, I have to disagree. Knowledge of Biblical mythology is just as important as knowledge of Greek mythology, for literature and art.<BR/><BR/>Adam's rib, Noah's ark, the mess of pottage, the patience of Job, the good shepherd, pearls before swine, the whore of Babylon ...<BR/><BR/>Just don't try to read the damned thing from cover to cover! Between those "begats" and the "heave offerings" (whatever the heck they were) and the blood on the high priest's big toe, anyone would find it mind-numbing.<BR/><BR/>Isaac Asimov wrote a good book, "Words from the Myths," covering the Greek legends. Something similar would be good in the case of the Bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-40392814365788413662007-08-27T22:12:00.000-04:002007-08-27T22:12:00.000-04:00To say that study of the Bible is necessary for a ...To say that study of the Bible is necessary for a proper grasp of classic literature is utter nonsense. I am a senior undergrad in English and have taken classes in Shakespeare without ever reading the Bible even once. Whenever I tried to read the Bible, I gave up after the first few pages due to sheer boredom. I have no patience for the irrational, so when it comes to knowledge of the Bible I have learned that ignorance is indeed bliss.Randohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12621188857570105414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-67870323987679091232007-08-22T00:34:00.000-04:002007-08-22T00:34:00.000-04:00I'll follow up.My last visit to the Bible literacy...<B>I'll follow up.</B><BR/><BR/>My last visit to the Bible literacy movement was in May when I was informed by an email from TLL (The Textbook Letter) about the forthcoming two part review of "The Bible And It's Influence" (the book, used by BLP, mentioned in a prior comment of mine.) Checking the TLL website, the review isn't mentioned. So, if it's been published, I'll have to get a newsletter subscription before I can get hold of the review to read. As for the book, I likely won't read it: I based my "Trojan horse" assessment on the BLP premise that the Bible "is the foundational document for the development of Western Civilization." I also looked at the fact that Chuck Stetson is a coeditor.<BR/><BR/><B>Some Culprits Found</B><BR/><BR/>As to the "<B><I>...culprits ultimately responsible for the growth of Bible studies in public school...</I></B>", the book <B>Taking Religion Seriously Across the Curriculum</B> by Warren A. Nord and Charles C. Haynes (Paperback - Aug 25, 1998), might also be a place to look. I hadn't heard of this book but I ran across two scathing reviews yesterday on the TLL website. http://www.textbookleague.org/111nord.htm#apair The first is titled "Stealth Evangelism" by Brant Abrahamson.<BR/>"<B><I>They purport to examine the underlying principles of the New Consensus and to "draw out," from those principles, some "implications for the curriculum." The implications, they say, are "sometimes surprising." I agree. It is truly surprising to see these authors "draw out" the implication that history teachers must present religious myths alongside historical scholarship and must depict these as equivalent paths to knowledge about the past! It is indeed surprising to watch the authors "draw out" the implication that science teachers in public schools must negate their own teaching of science by telling students that prescientific world-views, magical beliefs and miraculous happenings deserve serious consideration as explanations of nature!</B></I> <BR/><BR/><B>What's the plan?</B><BR/><BR/>According to a second review "A Pair of Common Tricksters" (on the same web page) by William J. Bennetta: "<B><I>In Taking Religion Seriously, Nord and Haynes try to provide rationalizations for converting the public schools into religious-indoctrination shops, and they try to convince their readers that this conversion can be accomplished in spite of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment -- the clause that forbids the erection of any official religion by any unit of government or any public agency. What the schools should do, Nord and Haynes suggest, is to set up programs of education "about religion" and to rig these programs in favor of whatever religions are deemed to be the "major" ones or the most "influential" ones. Then the schools can do what Nord and Haynes themselves do in their book: Cast Christianity as the only religion that is sufficiently "major" and sufficiently "influential" to merit sustained consideration, and cast the Christian Bible as the only religious scripture that merits any serious study. Nord and Haynes evidently imagine that this ruse will fool any court in the land. </I></B>"<BR/><BR/><B>Weasel writing made the reviewers job very difficult.</B><BR/><BR/>About the way Nord and Haynes have written their book, I found this comment by Abrahamson (and a similar one by Bennetta) to be quite revealing: "<B><I>Very few things in Taking Religion Seriously are stated clearly and explicitly, and the book is hard to read because it is packed with slippery phrasing, weasel-wording, equivocation, and internal contradictions. To figure out what Nord and Haynes are really proposing, I have had to work hard.</I></B>" <BR/><BR/><B>Shocking!</B><BR/><BR/>Bennetta also writes: "<B><I>The only discernible innovation in Taking Religion Seriously is Nord and Haynes's effort to fuse the customary anti-intellectualism of the religious right with the "postmodern" anti-intellectualism of the academic left [note 8]. As we shall see, Nord and Haynes advance the postmodern notion that any invocation of knowledge or experience or judgment is an exercise in prejudice!</I></B>"<BR/>According to the reviewers, the remake of American education is to take place under the banner of "teaching about religion" instead of the illegal "teaching religion." There's lots of shocking material in these reviews; I've only tried to convey a sense of the reviewer's conclusions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-12237457133164332972007-08-16T10:25:00.000-04:002007-08-16T10:25:00.000-04:00Dear Dan G:You write: "This is off topic, somewhat...Dear Dan G:<BR/><BR/>You write: "This is off topic, somewhat, but have you or your publisher/agent made any attempt to integrate your "Sparrowhawk" series into an american history curiculum? I ask because I recall that my 5th grade american history curiculum included a book titled "Johnny Tremain" and I believe that your series would be a superior substitution. I wouldn't know what grade level, nor which books (if not all) would suffice, but I'm curious if you've even considered it and what your opinion on the undertaking would be."<BR/><BR/>Actually, the series is turning up in college and high school lit courses. Reading age range is between 8 and 80. I'm in correspondence with a 3rd grade fan who'se read the whole series. Book 2 was used in a masterworks seminar at Ashland U. 1.5 years ago. I've lost track of where the series is being used in American lit courses. So, discriminating teachers are way ahead of both of us!<BR/><BR/>Mel McGuire: What you've posted above simply confirms my suspicions. <BR/><BR/>Mr. Mike: I think your prejudice against Dawkins and Hitchens is unreasonable. I agree with you that Sparrowhawk is a "better banner" for atheism than their books, but I failed to detect either of their agendas other than revealing the truths about God, the Bible, and the whole mess of religion.<BR/><BR/>Bill Bucko: Nice asides! Always go to the source if in doubt!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Ed ClineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-82920934322472040062007-08-16T04:21:00.000-04:002007-08-16T04:21:00.000-04:00I read the Bible from cover to cover several times...I read the Bible from cover to cover several times, starting when I was nine years old.<BR/><BR/>For those of you who haven't read it, I can summarize its philosophical meaning in 3 short quotes:<BR/><BR/>"lean not unto thine own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5);<BR/><BR/>"seek not after your own heart" (Numbers 15:39);<BR/><BR/>both of which were even more succinctly summarised by Jesus Christ:<BR/><BR/>"Deny thyself."<BR/><BR/>Which explains why, every Good Friday, I sing "If I Had a Hammer."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-49084534352196860782007-08-16T02:08:00.000-04:002007-08-16T02:08:00.000-04:00Mr. Cline,I'm very disappointed to see you giving ...Mr. Cline,<BR/><BR/>I'm very disappointed to see you giving screen time to Dawkins and Hitchens. Those two are a bunch of vainglorious hacks. The Sparrowhawk series carries a better banner for atheism than any of their flavor-of-the-month product, because Sparrowhawk asserts a factual historic basis for its depiction of theist-atheist tension, while Dawkins and Hitchens are so busy preaching their own agenda that they are blind to having embraced the essence of the thing they condemn.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10125745545009130612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-313952617420239142007-08-15T23:24:00.000-04:002007-08-15T23:24:00.000-04:00So far as "Christian American History" is concerne...So far as "Christian American History" is concerned, I'm reading the book "Liars for Jesus" by Chris Rodda. I'm not a historian but Chris sure looks like she's makeing a heroic detailed effort to debunk the rewrite of American history done for the sake of the Dominionist agenda.<BR/>The book's web site is: http://www.liarsforjesus.com/<BR/><BR/>This cult is anti-reason, anti-American, and anti-Western civilization. The rewrite of American history and the Bible literacy scam are two little discussed fronts in this war and I'm glad Mr. Cline has touched on them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-86937416951205157522007-08-15T22:59:00.000-04:002007-08-15T22:59:00.000-04:00The Bible Literacy Project link mentioned above is...The Bible Literacy Project link mentioned above is:<BR/>http://www.bibleliteracy.org/Site/index2.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-83494530201300602522007-08-15T22:42:00.000-04:002007-08-15T22:42:00.000-04:00What? The religious right is in an uproar because ...What? The religious right is in an uproar because kids can't understand Shakespeare? I don't think so.<BR/><BR/>I've concluded that neither of the two Bible literacy organizaions are driven basically by a concern for literacy. From the <A HREF="http://www.bibleinschools.net/" REL="nofollow">National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools</A> website: "<I><B>The world is watching to see if we will be motivated to impact our culture, to deal with the moral crises in our society, and reclaim our families and children.</B></I>" This is right up front in the President's statement: digging is not required.<BR/><BR/>The <A HREF="" REL="nofollow">Bible Literacy Project</A> requires a little work. Sheila Weber, who is Vice President of Communications for BLP, states in an audio(11/16/2006) found on the site that "<I><B>It</I> [the Bible] <I>is the foundational document for the development of Western civilization.</B></I>" If this is the basis of the book <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Influence-Student-Literacy-Project/dp/0977030202/ref=sr_1_1/104-7079336-6081544?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187227995&sr=1-1" REL="nofollow">The Bible and Its Influence</A> being promoted for use in Bible classes, the book seems sure to be absurd. A textbook reviewer returned an email inquiry and said: "<I>We are on the case. <B>The Bible and Its Influence</B>, an outrageous fraud, will be the subject of two reviews in our publication, <B>The<BR/>Textbook Letter</I></B>. One of the reviews has already been written." (Hopefully, these reviews will tip off some teachers about what's being proposed.) It must be noted also that the chairman of BLP is Chuck Stetson, about whom Americans United wrote: <A HREF="http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7762&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=cs_" REL="nofollow">Chuck Stetson’s Trojan Horse? <BR/></A><BR/>These Bible literacy programs are indeed Trojan horses. They appear to have found a hole in the wall of separation and intend to exploint it fully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5200276.post-71509325922855882852007-08-15T21:55:00.000-04:002007-08-15T21:55:00.000-04:00Mr. Cline,This is off topic, somewhat, but have yo...Mr. Cline,<BR/><BR/>This is off topic, somewhat, but have you or your publisher/agent made any attempt to integrate your "Sparrowhawk" series into an american history curiculum? I ask because I recall that my 5th grade american history curiculum included a book titled "Johnny Tremain" and I believe that your series would be a superior substitution. I wouldn't know what grade level, nor which books (if not all) would suffice, but I'm curious if you've even considered it and what your opinion on the undertaking would be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com